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02/05/2009

Comments

Gleaner, I don't know why you're worried. Taxes -- even the "temporary" variety -- never go away.

As everyone knows, business and their owners pay no taxes; plain and simple. Again; not a single business pays a penny of tax out of the owners pocket! It may seem like they do, but not really. Yes, the cost of eveything consumed is inflated to cover a business person's costs, but at the end of the day, s/he adjusts their prices to recoup their operating costs.

The modified business tax? Please! That cost is structured into the sales price of the goods sold by the business. Just like capital costs, electricity, natural gas, phone, various insurances, gasoline/diesel, internet, the +5,000# vehicle that is a deduction, depreciation,social secutity, FICA, unemployment, 401k, licenses, ultimetly, the MBT is one piece of the slice and dice mutual obligation......a business is the collector of community fees, a fee that is paid by the consumer who is really the uber tax payer. Business people? They pay property tax, various business taxes and really, aside from the home tax, all costs of the business, including the profit margin, are passed on to the consumer [hell, they write off the cost of their home business office and portions of their home utilites]. Who really pays all those 'business taxes'?; That's me and you.

Of all the delusional strawman arguments I have heard over the years the one that goes, "Profits allow businesses to expand operations, invest in new capital [whatever the hell that means, it sounds like borrowing money to me], or hire much needed laborers [really, you need me; you love me?!]" is amoung the most dubious! Maybe 'profit' also allows for the purchase of a Mercedes Benz, or a 9,000 foot home with 75 ton of air conditioning, or a 100 foot yacht, or Lear jets, or donations to 'thunk tanks', or private education for offspring (whatever else the right wing thinks, society is only on the hook for the price of a public education, not a private one), etcetera!

You want 'profit'? Hey! raise the f#@*ing price of what your selling if you want 'more profit' as it's not like a business is paying a single penny to the government anyway aside from personal income tax [and not in Nevada], and we know how businesspeople always seem to have lost money year over year, and underpay their social security until they are of retirement age and suddenly realize that they were only screwing themselves all these years!

If a business wants to increase their margin I suggest they talk to their landlord who is screwing them year over year!

It's all a Ponzi scheme and our future will never meet the promises of years past: Life in the near future involves a much lower standard of living; a dollar on the decline [big time!]. Recall the 1930's and prewar 1940's and be ready to relive them.

The Shit is soon to hit the fan.

Businesses are under great pressure from their investors not simply to make profits but to hit or exceed specific profit-margin targets. So if your business is not hitting that number and you receive a tax break, are you going to use that newfound lucre to hire more employees and/or make capital improvements -- or are you going to put it toward hitting that profit-margin number (like the 20% profit that is the minimally acceptable return on a Stephens Media publication)? If you picked "A," you just flunked the test.

Dave you've actually done a wonderful job making my case.

Corporate taxes are largely borne by the consumer in one way or another (not all of them as you've assumed there is something called elacticity of course).

But even assuming all corporate taxes are paid for by the consumer, why raise taxes on corporations at all? All it does is mask how much we hurt consumers which is everyone - its also regressive in that poor consumers suffer more, paying a higher amount as a percentage of their income.

but in regards to your other point, yes profits are used to reinvest back in the company. You can get a loan to do it, you can sell bonds to do it, you can use your profits. Its not a fallacy, its fact.

David,

Assuming what you say is true, what do you think is done with that profit?

Does it just sit around? Do investors stare at it and cheer, HOORAY we made some profit?

Think about it. That money goes somewhere. If investors want high profits and a company maintains high profits then aren't investors going to put more money into the company to see more profits come back to them?

This isn't a 2 dimensional world we live in. Its 3 dimensions, there is color, and there are causes and effects. There are even secondary and third tier effects we need to look out for. Think deep, think hard.

Be sure to check out today's R-J for a wonderful ad showing the salaries paid to Chamber of Commerce officials trying to gut the salaries and lives of public employees. It would have to be an ad. No way the R-J would print the truth about that.

"If investors want high profits and a company maintains high profits then aren't investors going to put more money into the company to see more profits come back to them?"

In short, no. It's obvious from your question that you've never followed a publicly traded corporation.

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Glean the Gleaner



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