Clinton outshines Obomba, er, Obama?!?

When Barack Obama showed up at Saturday's health care forum with really very little to say about health care, it was a bit of a surprise. Fine, the plan's in the works. But Obama was repetitive, frequently running to the safe haven of "basic principles" and rambling on about "a series of roundtable discussions" and "some system where we buy into a larger pool" and, well, we want to like Obama really we do. As we've said repeatedly, only half-jokingly, nothing will tell the rest of the world we're not crazy anymore like electing a president whose middle name is Hussein. But at the forum Saturday, even a mild-mannered questioner in the crowd basically ripped into him because there's no there there. When we take notes of what people are saying when they are speaking, we sometimes like to write little missives to ourselves in brackets or off to the margins, in the hope that they'll remind us of our reactions later. Such little reminders that we scribbled while Obama was speaking include: "He comes to a health care forum unprepared?" "Un. Fucking. Believable." "Painful." "Anybody who has been checked in at all has more specific answers than this." "Is it fear?" "Yikes." And like that.

No less surprising than the "Obomba" phenomenon was the delightful energy and confidence of Hillary Clinton.  We didn't care much for her glorified managed care proposal in the 90s, have never thought her thinking on health care is as innovative or aggressive as she would like people to think it is, and nothing she said Saturday changed our minds. But she's definitely comfortable talking about the subject, and one note we made to ourselves while she was speaking reads "She kicked ass today."

Meantime, in the realm of actual health care policy and specific ideas and stuff like that, we sort of fell for Edwards Saturday (Well and of course Dennis Kucinich, who is almost always right about everything). The Gleaner's longer thoughts about why Edwards' plan caught our attention is over at NVToday.

Comments

[IronJawed]

I got the same feeling as the Gleaner. I really wanted Obama to do well, but he didn't. And, though most people seemed to think Clinton hit the ball out of the park, I wasn't impressed. She never did really talk about a plan.

Edwards, on the other hand... well, he laid out his plan, was frank about it and got my attention.

[Brian Hightower]

While I will agree that Sen. Clinton was on fire yesterday, I have to say that I was very impressed with what she said. She didn't dodge any of the questions, and her answers helped me figure out what is possible.
I never knew that private health insurance spends 20% to 30% on overhead, compared to 3% by Medicare. That money alone could pay for all the health care reform we need!
Something else I heard from her that really impressed me, was that she is not going to wait until she is president to begin work on her ideas. She is already doing it.
For me, Sen. Clinton won yesterday, hands down!
Brian Hightower

[southern aztec]

Brian--

Is posting on local "liberal blogs" after a debate part of your job? Give me a break! Edwards won my vote last night, hands down. Clinton is far too liberal for me, and I can't stand the Clinton brand of corruption that follows her and her husband around. If we want honest, intelligent, and electable, then we go with Edwards!

And for those on this blog that think the "electable" part of the equation doesn't really mean anything, I can only say.......Governor Gibbons. Turns out the pundits were right about that one all along. Electability matters, Folks.

[Sam Dehne]

Gibbons? Electable?
Heller? Electable?
Nobody in this/her right mind
believes that the citizens
really want these two critters.

Voters decide nothing.
Vote counters decide everything.

Gibbons and Heller are living
bona fide proof that the corruption
in the Nevada voting system...
is working.

[southern aztec]

Sam-
If you really believe that, then you've rendered yourself useless to the cause. Conspiracy theories? Give me a break! There is nothing that turns the collective stomach of the average intelligent voter more than a conspiracy theory as to why someone won or lost. Gibbons won, not because people liked him, but because people didn't necessarily like his opponent--plain and simple! The way we win next go 'round is to out-work and out-maneuver the opposition! Please stop with the conspiracy theories--it's embarrassing already!

[IronJawed]

I'm all about the recall, Sam. Let's bring it on. Southern Az has a stick up his azz, or else he hasn't been paying attention. No one said anything about conspiracies, brother. Sam was commenting on the fact that Gibbons has an approval rating lower than Bush's, and there is a federal probe into his partaking in bribes - making him one corrupt fellow.

Southern Az, it's great that you are a conservative Dem. But, brother, your time has passed.

[southern aztec]

IronJawed-
Work on your reading comprehension. "Vote counters decide everything"? No offense intended to Sam, but that kind of thinking is just silly. As for you, IronJawed, it's good to see that you're still deciding who is and who isn't good enough for the democratic party. And for future reference, it's "sister", sister.

[Southy]

While readers on this site discuss universal health care, I would like to mention that on the conservative blog sites in Nevada today the big news story is a letter sent to Nevada Senator Nolan by a mother of 3 boys concerning his proposed legislation to have parents pay some fee for after-school.

The mother's concern is thus: “As a conservative Republican I’m so discouraged by such liberal taxing of the people and this is not your first attempt. As of last month I pulled my membership from the RNC (Republican National Committee) because of the Republican representation, or lack thereof. These ideas of bigger government and more spending is out of control in Washington and has no place in our great State of Nevada."

Where is the Republican self sufficency, the cry to drown government in the tub? Regretably there is no such cognitive ability. They seem to not understand that the "out of control spending" is the sound of the school bus driving their kids to another baseball game, driven by one of those moneygrubbing ner-do-well guvment employees!

I quess entiltement depends on which side of the base you are standing next to! LOL

[Southy]

Sorry, 1st paragraph should read "after school SPORTS."

[IronJawed]

Sister Southern Azz, you are right about one thing - I read Sam's post too quickly. But, you are wrong about the other thing: I don't decide who is in or out of the party, and I've never thought that I have. But if you think that a conservative Dem presidential, congressional or gubernatorial candidate is going to come out on top in Nevada, you simply aren't paying attention.

Also, is it just me, or does it seem as though one person is having fun arguing with him/herself. Next time, come up with more create names SA.

[mc]

John and Elizabeth Edwards on 60 minutes:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/24/60minutes/main2605038.shtml (on the right side, click on "in full")

Katie Couric asked some pretty disparaging questions imo, but still, they did a great job.

[mc]

for the lazy, a direct link

60 minutes interview

[dem sister]

Darn right Hillary "kicked ass" - and thanks Gleaner for pointing it out. Obomba really embarrassed when he asked the student who only found "lead poisoning" info on his website whether maybe she was confused and had been looking at the Senate site. Obviously because there would have been NO health care info (not even lead poisoning) on the campaign site. Non-substantive and condescending too. Real charmer, that one.

[The Penguin]

Gibbons was electable only from the standpoint that he was elected. Not that it was a good thing -- far from it -- but certainly a higher percentage of voters thought him more electable than did the percentage of those who cast ballots for Titus, who clearly was not electable as SHE DID NOT WIN. In other words, the lesser-of-two-evils principle went into motion yet again. At all levels, the number of truly electable candidates, i.e., those who actually inspire voters with fresh and bold ideas and initiatives, is waning and has been for some time, In short, the best qualified potential candidates from both sides choose not to run; this is probably the most chilling aspect of the money and negetivity of politics today. It's been said before but it bears repeating -- if Lincoln (poorly educated rural white guy) ran today, somebody somewhere would launch a series of smear ads against the guy and he would never escape the primary. Nor would Washington (false teeth), Jefferson (dalliances with slaves), FDR (wheelchair? 'nuff said), or JFK (bad back except when in bed with Marilyn).

[IronJawed]

huh?

[Pedro]

When do you think the Prez Campaign employees are going to start posting on this site. It looks like we have seen somewhat of an influx of posters with very strong opinions that also parallel campaign talking points. Interesting.

So I guess Obama didn’t do too well on Saturday huh? That’s too bad. I wasn’t there myself but I thought this was a pretty good write up and seems to conclude, as did Hugh, that Edwards came off with a victory.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/24/AR2007032401079.html

I agree with Obama that in order to change the healthcare system in the US we not only need a plan but someone who can build a political consensus and get a plan enacted. Unfortunately for him, I think Richardson is probably the most capable of doing so.

[texex]

Penguin, Christofascism has totally transformed the methodologies used in campaigning over the last 20 years beginning with the Contract On America in 1994. The cristofascists were able to put forth the mantra that if you are a Christian then you must also follow the Republican party since they are anti-abortion, anti-gay, etc. which was erroneously attributed to Biblical teachings.

It stuck and stuck well. But what the normal church-going public that followed along could not forsee was that the christofascists unleashed a flood of its own antichrists in doing so; namely Bush and our own local gibberdagrabber as just a few examples of local interest.

The christofascist movement is still very dominating mostly because of what Howard Dean pointed out his the book he co-authored with Barry Goldwater "Conservatives without Conscience" wherein the lay people needed (and received) "Authoritarian" figures and concomitant manta to follow. Read the book so I don't have to explain all its tenets.

But now the antichrists such as Bush, Cheney, Abu Gonzales, and our own gibber are being unmasked for what and who they are as some people start to really consider the damage done under their SS police state. I.e., politics is cyclical although methodologies are always Darwinian.

You can't expect all lay people to come back from the edge of the flat earth, but I have faith that enough will that we can restore the Constitution, bring back civility, redivide church and state, redevote to the common cause of all humanity, and reestablish an age of reason and enlighenment. It may not happen in '08; but it will happen over time.

[IronJawed]

Pedro, note that Richardson says that he can give us universal healthcare in his first year as president and solve the deficit problem at the same time.

[Johnathan L. Abbinett]

Only Edwards and Richardson had a clear vision of reforming healthcare!

[Pedro]

Excellent point IJ. I like this guy more and more, but I still feel like he is running for VP.

Gore/Richardson: That would be outstanding.

[The Penguin]

Richardson blew it with that remark. Sorta like "Read my lips..."

I'm off his bandwagon.

[Johnathan L. Abbinett]

How about Edwards/Richardson or vice-versa?

[Obiter Dicta]

Penguin - What remark? Couldn't find it on the thread. Thanks.

[The Penguin]

See IJ's post from 10:22 a.m.

[Bill in Henderson]

I assumed that was what Penguin was referring to. I rolled my eyes when I read the original post.