Glean the Gleaner



  • Web lasvegasgleaner.com

Advertising


Blog powered by TypePad

« Daily Glean: Thought there wasn't going to be one today, didn't ya? | Main | Daily Glean: Jim Gibbons "may" be in a campaign »

04/24/2006

Comments

I am getting kinda sick of this non-agression pact crap.
At first I was like "Cool, some bipartisan cooperation, thats what we need."
But clearly it has become just another way for all the old white dudes in the gang of 100 stay in business and keep everybody out.
Its not democratic and its not good for anybody, D or R.

Harry Reid is an ass; and he'll cut your throat in a nano-second.

Sorry, but an ass sees itself as an ass and doesn't know any better. Ah, but a king is different and only a king can create royality. Reid sees himself as a king, just like the other kings inside the DC beltway, and only he determines who will become royality. Jack has my respect, he's big enough to move forward. I hope he has a strategy to work around the supposed king of Nevada's Democratic Party.

technically, aren't all Dems asses?
there's a kicking one on the state convention button, and it sure ain't harry
the child he should have scolded in the press conference was the budding critic who accompanied me
i think the more hopeful excuse for reid's performance saturday is this:
tessa's off running for congress


Don't pity his staff, at least not his "glamourous" DC crew. These are folks that will tell you straight to your face that his vote for the patriot act was a good idea (because it was their idea).

Ugh, one week in DC and you'll come home without a doubt that Harry Reid's head has been stuck in DC for so long he forgot that his ass belongs to Nevada.

I have been bothered by Reid's kowtowing to Ensign for some time. I find his treatment of Carter to be childish and unbecoming to a senior Senator. I have contacted Reid's office before about his buddy-buddy attitude toward Ensign. I was ignored then. But, my vote cannot be ignored. Carter has my vote. Maybe next time I'll stay away from voting for Reid.

Unfortunately for the rest of us in Nevada, except for John Ensign, Harry Reid puts his own career interests ahead of his national party, his state party and the U.S. Senate.

Reid's behavior to Carter, the son of a former U.S. president, was petty and absolutely outrageous. Where does Reid come from complaining about Carter's candidacy, after Reid himself made some of the worst hand-picked candidate choices in Nevada political history in 2002 -- Dario Herrera for Congress and Erin Kenny for Lt. Gov., who were a year later famously indicted on bribery charges?

Doesn't Reid and his numb-nuts staff -- that hypocritically accepts things like expensive overseas trips paid by special interests -- realize that you can't go about creating a credible campaign for the Democratic Party to criticize the GOP in a very important, pivital election year and then turn around and snub a legitimate candidate of your own party, IN YOUR OWN STATE?!!

His yes-man/woman staff needs to stop kissing his ass and tell him that he's off-base here, that he needs to finesse this thing with Carter -- like a good politician would do -- or risk damaging himself with his own national party.

Because, this whole episode is not the mark of a good, thoughful, savvy politician. This is a very public indication of Reid's own intemporate, tragic character flaws -- petty, angry, belligerent, grudgeholding, despotic.

Reid's just so arrogant now that he sees himself as the untouchable ward heeler of Nevada, with his career above everyone else's. Any pretense of his speaking for "the good of Nevada" is suspect.

What about his philosophical opposition to abortion, when virtually all of his party standard bearers are clear about favoring a woman's right to choose? Many, many Democrats would VOTE AGAINST ANYONE who takes the phony I'm-For-It-But-I'm-Against-It view he does on choice. Now, he has his crony Tessa Hafen -- another pro-lifer -- running for Congress.

And this is the guy running the Dem party in the Senate, that's supposed to slame the Republicans, for doing what he does?

What would Hillary Clinton, Charles Shummer, Ted Kennedy, Chris Dodd, etc., think of Reid's behavior to Carter? You won't hear much said in public from them about it when they hear about it, because they know it was a mistake by Reid.

Reid's embarrassed himself, and his lapdog state/Clark County party -- a parade of mostly political hacks and flakes -- are powerless to DO ANYTHING about it aside from taking it and meekly and disingenuously defending Reid for doing the indefensible.

Man, do I hope Carter wins. Give us a real state party then, instead of the Stalinist Reid group that purports to run the party now.

Jack Carter for Senate!!!
Dina Titus for Governor!!!!

Let's take the party back to the people! I don't know how many of you were there over the weekend, but Party-Status-Quo also got Tom Collins elected as the State Party Chair. With outrageously priced flyers and banners decorating the hall (wonder where the money came from?), Collins won by less than 10 votes. Earlier the same day, Mr Collins told the Stonewall Democrat Caucus that Nevada would still be a Democratic state if "20 years ago those women weren't so pushy about the ERA." He also denigrated homosexuals-- yet he won.

It's getting nauseating. Please, let's get real Democrats in office and get Reid's way-too-soft fingers off of our collective democratic throat.

Carter should be sitting in Reid's senate seat if Reid isn't willing to take on Ensign. Since the current minority leader seems to be hell-bent on staying minority leader because he doesn't have the guts or brains to root out a Bush lackey in his own state, I think it's time for him to retire. It's pathetic that in the current climate, with the havoc the Bush administration has wreaked on America, folks still can't seem to determine if the Dems will take back Congress. It shouldn't even be a contest at this point, but winning takes the sort of leadership that goes beyond saying everything the other side has done is bad. Harry's having the same problem with the vision thing that Bush's dad did. At a time when he should be promoting, not silencing, people who might have the spine, smarts and vision it will take to turn things around, Harry's coddling a guy who's helped get us into this mess by keeping his lips firmly planted on the Bush administration's ass. Keep up the good work Harry.

You know I am just sick of the phrase "real Democrat." Who the hell is anyone, Lisa Simpson and I included, to say what a real Democrat is?

So Tom Collins was elected at the State Convention. Are you now saying the delegates to our State Conventiona are not "real Democrats?"

What about all of the labor unions who endorsed and supported Tom Collins? I believe that Danny Thompson, the head of the AFL-CIO gave Collins nominating speech. I guess Danny Thompson and the workers represented by the AFL-CIO are not "real Democrats" either then?

Apparently the only "real Democrats" are people who 100% endorse Lisa Simpson and her ilks specific point of view.

I am pro-choice, however, a person can be a Democrat and not be pro-choice. I support full legal rights for gays and lesbians, however, a person can be a Democrat and not agree with me.

Some who are both pro-life and oppose full legal rights for gays and lesbians have excellent records on the environment, workers rights, the right to organize, economic security, education, health care, etc, etc, etc.

Should those communities who feel adversley impacted by their stances advocate for their point of view... absolutely. But should those people decide that because they disagree with them that they are not Democrats regardless of the rest of their record let alone their registration... absolutely not.

You can attack Tom Collins and Harry Reid and anyone you want as not being "real Democrats" and all you are really saying is that you are so arrogant that you beleive only your personal views add up to being a Democrat.

I don't agree with Tom Collins on everything but I agree with him on lots of things. For instance, he is the only one from Clark County who stood up for our police officers during their contract negotations.

But whatever, I disagreed with Lisa Simpson et al so I must also now be a DINO or not a "real Democrat." I must be out of my mind for advocating freedom of choice and ideas. How insane of me to suggest that nobody will agree with anybody 100% and that we need to look at the whole of persons actions. Above all I must be completely crazy to say that being a Democrat means something different to everyone based on the sum of their life.

Keep separating the "real Democrats" from the imposters in your mind Lisa. All you prove is that you are arrogant, ignorant and ultimately irrelevant.

Mr. Gilbert,

I think my point is that I am trying very hard to NOT be irrelevant-- but Tom Collins and anti-choice, anti-equality officials are, in freely saying they do not believe in equality and choice, trying to make ME irrelevant as a voter and a citizen.

The Democratic party tent is big enough for everyone. But when the people who build the tent can decide to not let people in the tent by making them irrelevant, then I say that is anti-democrat. I'm thrilled that Tom Collins stood up for the Police. I'm thrilled he can raise money. But is that all we require? We can't find someone who will do that and not degrade women and gays???? Are we happy with that, truly???? There are pro-choice Republicans, but I am not one. There are pro-equality Republicans, but I am not one. I am a Democrat for many reasons, not just choice and equality. But if the party is ready to accept officials that do not believe everyone is welcome to the tent, I will not remain quiet. It is my party, too.

As a representative of the State Democratic Party, are you, Mr. Gilbert, saying that women, gays, and lesbians should expect to be pushed aside in favor of someone who can freely insult groups they personally do not like and be not only rewarded, but held up as examples of the best this party can do?

Lisa,

For starters I am speaking as Justin Gilbert an American citizen and at most the Vice Chairman of the Clark County Democratic Party. I could have chosen to post anonymously or under an alias but I believe in standing by your words.

You said that 'the people who build the tent are deciding to not let certain people in' correct?

Can you give me some examples of when you were not allowed to participate? Can you show me how at State Convention women, gays and lesbians were denied their voice? I am pretty sure there were breakouts for both of those groups at the convention and in fact the candidates for Chair attended those meetings to discuss the issues. If you can point to specific instances where your voice or right to participate was denied because of your gender or sexual orientation... or frankly for any reason at all you will have my full support in rendering a solution to that problem.

Besides I would argue that activists are the people that build the tent and I would guess you are an activist. So as an activist when you say Tom Collins or someone else is not a "real Democrat" aren't you the one who is building the tent and then deciding who not to let in?

I will state again that I fully support a woman's right to choose and I believe that those in the GLBT community are entitled to the same rights as every other American.

If a candidate, Democrat or otherwise, takes a stand against an issue that you greatly care about you should call them out on it. You should debate and discuss that issue with that person, especially if you believe it is regarding your rights.

My objection to your posts was the use of the phrase "real Democrat." I don't believe that anyone, you or I, has the right or ability to decide who is a "real Democrat" and who is a "fake Democrat."

I'd like to point out that about 600 Democrats attended State Convention out of almost 400,000 registered Democrats statewide. That means that 99.85% of the registered Democrats in the state of Nevada were not there.

I am willing to bet that, even though I may disagree with them, a good number of those 400,000 Democrats are Pro-Life or opposed to full rights for the GLBT community. I am also willing to bet that almost all of those Democrats believe they are "real Democrats."

So if under your definition those people are not "real Democrats" where should they go? They're obviously not going to stay in (y)our party because they are not "real Democrats."

I support your issues but I also care about: the poor quality of education, thousands of Nevadans suffering and dying because they cannot afford health insurance, poverty, the rising cost of housing, the decline of the right to organize and form a union, the widening gap between the poor and the wealthy, our nations current reckless foreign policy, etc, etc.

When those people who are not "real Democrats" leave (y)our party and go somewhere else, more than just women and the GLBT community are going to suffer. It also means that education will continue to get worse. It means that thousands of our fellow Nevadans will suffer and die because they can't afford life saving medical treatment. It means the rights of workers and the working class will continue to erode.

You should continue to fight for your values and beliefs within the Democratic Party. I am not opposed to your criticism of Tom Collins and his stance on GLBT issues. You have every right and perhaps even an obligation to be critical of his views.

But what neither you or I have the right to do is tell him or anyone else they are not a "real Democrat" just because we disagree with their views.

When you try to tell people with other views that that they are not allowed to be part of a party of 400,000 citizens THEN you are being arrogant, ignorant and irrelevant. When you stand up for your beliefs you are being confident, informed and very much relevant to the process. There is a difference between the two that I hope you find.

I am going to push back hard when I think someone's voice and right to participate is being restricted because of their views... in this case it was Tom Collins. I would be happy to sit down with you or anyone else regarding any times you have felt your voice or participation was restricted because of your views because that is equally unaccepatable.

I hope we can work together in the future to grow this party from all sides.

It also boils down to this, Justin (and I hope this is actually Justin and not a troll pretending to be Justin)... Several people reported that after Collins was elected, he said to a progressive woman delegate "it’s because of women like you who pushed for the ERA way back when, that this state isn't Blue." He also walked over to the Stonewall Democratic Club and said he could never support "you people."

Let’s get this straight. It’s Collins who isn't inclusive. Why should women and the gay community put up with that?

I think what you are going to find is a ground swell of progressives that are pissed off more than ever and are going to work harder to change things. Collins won by a very, very, very slim majority (seven votes, I think?). Next time around, Dems like me who for away on business for the county convention (and were, therefore, non-credentialed for the state convention), will make it a point to be at the next state convention.

Sure, we need more donkeys. The Democratic tent is certainly big enough for everyone. But, quite frankly, we shouldn’t be led by verbal diarrhead jack asses like Collins.

Justin, you go on to write, "When those people who are not "real Democrats" leave (y)our party and go somewhere else, more than just women and the GLBT community are going to suffer."

This statement made me cringe, literally. Last I checked, women comprise 51% of the community. So, by more than "just" women what the hell do you mean, exactly? It’s women who vote overwhelmingly to change educational systems, not men. Statistically, it’s women, not men, who support changing the health care system.

Get your priorities straight, dude.

This is Justin Gilbert that is why I listed my personal email. You can email me at jgilbertdem@hotmail.com to confirm if you wish.

My quote was simply a way of making the point that there are many registered Democrats in our party who are Pro-Life or do not support full legal rights for the GLBT community who are very supportive of many other traditional Democratic issues. If we declare that they are not "real Democrats" and they leave the party then we don't have the votes to win elections in which case IN ADDITION to women and the GLBT community many other groups lose. I consider the most at-risk group our children in public school who unlike us cannot vote for their interests.

I will not concede my argument that nobody has the right to say who is a "real Democrat" and who is not. Registered Democrats are Democrats and that is all there is to it.

Whether or not you or others like it, this party is likely to continue to have members that are Pro-Life or not supportive of full rights for the GLBT Community.

Option 1 is to continue with a pissing match about who the "real Democrats" are which leads to Republicans winning and Democrats, and the issues being lobbied for on both sides losing.

The other option is to stop this worthless infighting where nobody wins and focus on electing Democrats to office. The elected officials will make the policy because that is the way this government was designed. If you think that a Democrat running is not qualified than find someone to run or run yourself.

But when the dust of a primary settles Democrats need to support Democrats.

No matter how much you may want it you are never going to have the right to declare who is and is not a "real Democrat."

No matter how much some may want it, the party is not going to make the public policy... the people elected by the public will make the public policy.

The more people think they can use shortcuts to create social change the longer the road towards equality will be. You have to create the conditions for change one person at a time, there is no silver bullet and no shortcut to building a sucessful movement.

I beleive that Tom Collins believes the party should focus on electing Democrats. I agree with Tom Collins on that point.

I'll reiterate one more time that I support the issues raised about women's and GLBT rights. I will continue to support those issues even if I am told that I am not a "real Democrat."

However, I am going to take my own advice now and stop infighting with members of my own party and get back to getting Democrats elected to office.

I hope at some point we can work together on that. Until then I wish you the best of luck in the future.

I will stop posting on the blog now but feel free to contact me at jgilbertdem@hotmail.com if you have anything else you would like to talk about.

Put aside the insane, mindless backing of whatever Harry Reid says and does. That Tom Collins was elected Dem state party chair after making such boorish statements, having to do with significant and loyal Democrats, just shows how truly irrelevant the Nevada Democratic Party is. Laughable, even. A Reid wind-up doll that's turned on and off at Harry's will.

Someday, it might function as a real party organization and not like a bunch of hacks going through the motions, but apparently not for a while yet.

Justin, it's great that you don't concede your point. I, too, feel that the Democratic Party should have as many people in it as it can get, and that litmus tests are a bad idea. This is why I will not concede my point: the state chair for the Democratic Party should be inclusive, not exclusive.

Tom Collins has done a great job at disenfranchising a bunch of people after being on the job only two days. Who the needs that? Certainly not Democrats - that's for sure.


Sigh ...I have long believed that Harry Reid, the King, could have helped Kerry win in Nevada but instead sabotaged him. Reid sat on his skinny butt while the mining industry/Repukes spread rumors about how Kerry was going to shut down mining in Nevada when Reid could have walked Kerry out to meet with those mining execs and cleared the air. Now I really believe he killed Kerry in Nevada.

I was there...Hugh Jackson accurately represented what occured in the "news room" event - but, I'd have to refer to Harry as being "a donkey" not an "ass". Let's give Harry a break until 2010 shall we?

Jack Carter is a classy guy - this too will pass and I'm hoping, praying and working to see to it that Jack kicks Ensigns "ass!"

By the way, I can give Justin Gilbert a good example of when and where the voice of democrats was silenced - when, Justin ordered the sound technician to "turn off the microphones" (when a good number of democrats were patiently standing in line to speak their peace) - I was absolutely shocked that a Clark County leader would ever think they could assume such authority and violate the First Amendment rights of other Democrats - or anyone for that matter!

Sadly, a number of them grabbed their bags and walked out because of that violation. One couple complained that they had traveled all the way from Northern Nevada to participate - "...and will never, ever waste their time with the 'undemocratic' party of Nevada, ever again"! That is really, very sad - way to go Justin! It would be great if these types of blatant mistakes could be avoided in the future!

A word of advise, to all the staffers now working for elected officials, candidates or the State or County parties - YOU ARE NOT BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE! In fact, there are a lot of "volunteers" actively working for free - that are your elders and deserve a little more R-E-S-P-E-C-T than some of the "staff" have been demonstrating by your arrogant misbehavior!

Many of these "volunteers" have been "in politics" for decades - and you might learn a few good lessons from them IF you would simply take the time to listen (actively) - after all, they are out in the streets, walking neighborhoods and talking to a lot more of our neighbors than the "staff" who are spending most of their time glued to computer screens, staring into blackberries, juggling phone messages, traveling and trying to keep track of when and where the next 'smoking, joking and drinking event' is scheduled where they can "network" for their next job interivew.

Every important idea and topic must go through the "staffing" process - but, let's get real shall we? Volunteers are trying to work with "staff" the campaigns and the candidates - for ALL of us! Maybe, it's time for some of the "staff" to remember - NO ONE APPOINTED YOU OUR "DEN MOTHERS" or as "ALL POWERFUL GATE KEEPERS"! As we say in the military, "Lead, Follow, or Get Out of the Way"! In the case of staff, please don't be confused - the candidates are the "leaders" - staff's role is to either "follow" or, at the very least, "stay out of the way!"

To the majority of staffers, who are doing a great job, working smart and hard and being very polite and professional (especially to the volunteers) - THANK YOU! Perhaps, you could have a "little talk" with the "youngsters" PLEASE!

NOTE TO JUSTIN: Your arrogant transgression is forgiven - but, it will not be forgotten! You're not a "bad guy", in fact, I think you have a lot of technical talent and we need your support skills - I'd suggest you consider getting a staff job (and not running for any 'elected' positions until you "brush up" on your social skills, etiquette and learn the basic principasl of leadership).

By the way, coming up behind a combat veteran, grabbing them by the shoulder and turning them around (while they are engaged in passionate debate) is a really, really stupid thing to do! I had to consciously resist the "muscle memory" ingrained in my body from years of training. You should realize that I came very close to automatically defending myself (which would have been, really, very embarrasing to everyone - and very painful for you) - PLEASE, just keep your hands to yourself from now on - and stop rudely interrupting people when they're exercising their First Amendment Right to Freedom of Speech - PLEASE!

I do not want to ever have to speak about this, ever, again! Let's move on and get Dina, Tessa, Jack, Jill elected - and Shelley re-elected!

The comments to this entry are closed.

* * * * *

Get Gleaner email updates

  • Enter your email address:

    Delivered by FeedBurner

Network ads


Donations